Roadwolf's Blog

We’ve all seen it at one time or another, in WoW or in Real Life. A clique of close friends who will only interact and socialize within their own group. Cliques are as much a part of WoW as Guilds are. Infact, most guilds are originally formed around a clique. However the ‘C’ word seems to be a very bad word. Why would a close group of friends be considered bad? Well first of all, there are 3 main types of cliques. There is a constructive or open clique, and a negative, or closed clique. There is a fairly distinct difference between the two, however it is also possible to have a mixed clique, with some members being open, and others being closed.

A constructive or open clique is generally the basis of many guilds. In WoW, such a clique would be a group of players who have a common goal, and common interests. They play together and are willing to accept others as they prove they are worthy. This type of clique can grow over time, and while it may exclude some people, it is still opened to many who take the effort to join in. The problem is, that some people will not make a huge effort to become accepted, and will remain outsiders in almost every guild they join. However this type of clique, is the backbone of any Guild. A Guild itself is a clique, and in most cases, guilds are open cliques.

A closed or negative clique generally forms inside a established guild or group of people. You can think of a negative clique, as a back room gambling club, in an old western movie type bar. The normal patrons of the bar don’t ever get to see this back room, however the clique almost exclusively spend time back there. Generally a negative clique will only wish to socialize or play the game, within the confines of the clique. Often they will turn a blind eye, ignore, or try and pass on responsibility, when a non clique member wants to join their group. New membership into such a clique is rare and often such a clique will do their own thing, seperate from the guild.

There is also a mixed clique. A mixed clique will also form inside an existing guild. Some members may be open with the guild, and others may be closed and would rather avoid contact with other non-clique guild members. Mixed cliques are among the most difficult to work with, and hardest to avoid. Almost everyone has preferences as to who they will group with and who they will avoid. This is a problem for many medium to large guilds out there. I say problem, because a guild is supposed to be a giant clique in a way. A group of similar minded, and similar skilled players, whos goals are similar. When you start introducing cliques within cliques, then you start having problems.

So why is a group of friends, who only socialize with themselves considered a problem? Well, there are a few reasons. People join guilds to be included in something. They wish to group with and quest with other guild members. However when guild members are constantly excluded from such groups, either passivly, or activly, then what incentive is there for that person to wish to stay in the guild? Cliques will usually form within a group of active players. Players you will see online, almost all the time. And in turn these players will be the most visible people in a guild, as they are always online. Therefore, the overall guild image is affected by cliques who activly or passivly exclude members from their groups.

There is also an aspect of control. Cliques usually will have a leader or group of leaders, and they will generally decide what is best for them, as a group. This may include breaking guild rules or procedures, and doing things within their own set of rules. Because of this, cliques will generally put themselves above the law. In Guilds in WoW, administration and control is very important to ensure fair treatment and guild stability. As no mature player wishes for an unstable and dramatic guild in which to spend their free time in. Therefore the resistance of cliques to guild control is also a major problem. If a clique member breaks the rules of the guild, and an officer tries to correct that member, they will usually get jumped on by the clique members for being wrong, and harassing that member. This lack of the ability for authority figures within a guild, to enforce guild rules on clique members is very wrong. (And in many cases officers will be afriad to, or unwilling to approach clique members, with problems, due to the fear of it setting off a larger problem / causing drama.)

As I said before, mixed cliques are the most dangerous. Why is this? Well, they will include both social, and exclusive members of the guild. Often mixed cliques will include administrative or very popular guild members within their core. So how do you tell a mixed clique apart from a regular guild atmosphere? Well that is tricky. Mixed cliques will often form up regular groups, of the same, or similar group members, on a regular basis. These groups are usually formed in whisper, without a general broadcast of ‘hey, anyone want to do such and such’ in guild chat. The problem with such groups, is that they don’t always see that there is a problem. And usually any negative actions towards it by administration, will result in an uprising, or further seperation, and cliquey behaviour. The group may choose to seclude themselves even more and they turn into a closed clique.

Closed cliques are lost causes for a WoW guild. The clique has already made up their mind who they wish to socialize with, and as far as administration is considered, if a closed clique group ends up leaving the guild, then it is a better option in the long run, and as such, there is no real loss. This is however not an answer for mixed cliques. Mixed cliques will still have several ties to the social fabric of the guild, and a uprising or uprooting from the guild, will often have drastic outcomes. Non clique, and semi clique members of the guild will question what is really going on, and the whole situation will tend to get pretty ugly if not dealt with properly.

Either way you look at it, cliques will cause trouble in a guild over time. If a clique is challenged in a guild, by the authority of that guild, then it is very likely that the clique will end up leaving the guild. If a clique is left to continue within a guild, over time, the non clique members will all leave, feeling that they aren’t part of the ‘inner circle’, and the guild will slowly diminish. Those are the 2 most common outcomes of cliques in WoW guilds.

Are there other outcomes and solutions? Yes. but they take time, and effort on the part of both the guild as a whole, and the clique. Cliques can be worked around, and re-inigrated over time. One step is the realization within the clique, that they are infact a clique. The next step is the opening up, and inclusion of other non clique members, within their daily activities.

Some larger guilds are able to accomidate both closed and mixed cliques within them. These guilds (which will usually have more then 400 members) will often have enough active members to sustain a working relationship with many other members, and cliques. The benefit of this, is that with so many members, cliques are overshadowed by the size of the guild. Most people will be able to find groups or help when needed and will not complain or feel left out if they aren’t included in the cliques runs. However, with most moderate sized guilds, cliques remain a problem as they are very visible with fewer people online.

These are of course my observations from being a guild master for the past 3 years. I have also talked to many other guild masters about this issue as it has been a recurring problem here in the guild – as it has been in almost every other guild. Generally we expect a major clique to develop, and leave the guild every 6 months or so. This seems to be the trend. Of course preventing and integrating cliques are the highest priority for the administration of the guild.

I know that many members of the guild have been hurt by cliques in the past. And I wish for them to speak up, and share their stories with the rest of us. As a guild master myself, my interests lay with providing the best expierance for the guild as a whole. And as such, my decisions, actions, and observations, are all in an effort to provide the best possible future for the guild as a whole. I suppose you could say I am like spock in star trek. The good of the many outweigh the good of the few, or the one. So I am constantly worrying about the guilds future, and trying to plot the course through the next hurtle.

I do not believe that anyone should be treated differently or excluded from a group if they have proven to be unskilled, or have had bad days in the past. With the only exception being the elite kara run, where we must focus on progression if we ever wish to move forward. And I do wish, that anyone who thinks they are being treated differently, please come to me, and discuss their feelings with me. I wish to work with every member, to provide a better guild environment in the long run. So if you have any suggestions, or if you notice anything which could have negative effects in the long run, please, I beg you to come forward and talk about them with me (or any Duke).

In conclusion, in this guild, since we are not large enough to support them, cliques are a negative influence on the future of the guild. We must all work together and help recruit, and open ourselves up to both guild members and non guild members alike, in order to grow to a point where we can start not worrying about cliques so much. This guild used to have about 480 players in it. It was one of the largest if not THE largest guild on the alliance side at one time. Why have we lost so many? well, likely because of our strict stance on raiding. However I believe that our stance is in the best interest of the guilds future at this time. We have also been very good over the past year at filtering out undesired players, through the use of GEM and the IGIS. So, thru the use of GEM, we have helped filter out many undesirable players. We should ALL be one happy family, of skilled players. Some might even go as far as to suggest we are very elite for such a casual guild. Of course behaviour is the key factor for us, so skill, should not be a basis as to why someone is in the guild. Skill can develop over time, and with the help of our members, in a positive environment, unskilled playes can develop into skilled players. The key is to keep that positive and supportive. ‘Negative nellying’ and frustrated comments or actions imply a negative environment for people who are trying to improve their skill, and make them feel even more upset about their lack of skill, and they will often give up. So the key is to keep it positive. I kind of veered a bit off course, so I am gonna wrap it up.

I hope that all of us are able to maintain bonds and forge a lasting guild relationship. Believe me, I want the best for all of us. Please feel free to share your stories here about how cliques have effected your enjoyment of the game in the past. And also please feel free to approach me, with any questions or concerns you have about the social situation of the guild. Or any aspect of the guild for that matter. I hope this has been an informative article, and expresses the views, and concerns of the administration of the guild.

Thanks for your time
Roadwolf,

Tags: Computer Game Reviews by Roadwolf
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My good friend, Dasinia (his toons name), has recently given up on WoW. Previously he was a very hardcore raider, he was running BT, and Hyjal when he quit. I figured I would ask him a few questions to catch a glimpse of what the raiding life, really has to offer.

Roadwolf: How long have you been playing WoW?

Dasinia: I have been playing since mid 2005

Roadwolf: What motivated you to raid in the first place?

Dasinia: It was a natural progession I’d have to say. I guess I kind of just fell into it. I landed in a guild with a good group of people. We eventually split off from the guild and started our own raid guild and began work on Kara, Gruuls and mags.

Roadwolf: Would you say that the group which split off from the original guild to raid, was a clique?

Dasinia: oh, there definately is the leadership clique.. In every raid guild I’ve been in, there is this top percentile, that become good in-game friends. And this clique is essentially what drives and directs the entire guild and raid objectives. The clique builds the strats and makes sure that ppl know their jobs.

Roadwolf: So the raid guild you were in, was a clique that formed in another guild, and then moved off to form their own guild?

Dasinia: I’ve been in several raid guilds. This was the case with two of the guilds.. So yes.. However, the current guild I am in was formed from people who enjoyed pug’n together.. Funny how a guild born of pugs is now raiding BT/Hyjal..

Dasinia: Now, when you’re in the top raid guilds on a realm, you tend to build a reputation with the other top players.. You then get invites to pugs and etc.. Then you have some good friends, then.. You have a guild.

Roadwolf: In the motivation to raid, was gear a major factor?

Dasinia: It was for the gear, the sense of power and accomplishment of defeating raid bosses.. It takes a lot of training to get everyone to work as a team and think. The higher up you get you start to get bosses that are job based and not so much tank and spanks.. So you need to really amass some good players who can think beyond key mashing.
It was the thrill of the hunt. The politics of dancing. The gear and IF “look at my stuff” satisfaction too.

Roadwolf: How often did you spend, per day or per week, raiding?

Dasinia: oh man… I spent every night raiding. we had a routine of sorts..

Roadwolf: So like, 8 hours a night?

Dasinia: Sometimes, yes. We’d clear TK and Gruuls in one night.

Roadwolf: Both in one night? that is very impressive!

Dasinia: Yes, Then we’d clear SSC the next night and come back the following day for Vashj

Roadwolf: So what would happen if you missed a night?

Dasinia: If you missed a night, it wasnt too big of a deal. Some guilds though, would boot your ass if you missed too many nights. However my current guild is really cool, but they don’t tolerate people who hardly raid then try to lewt whore.

Roadwolf: Right now its taking us about 8 hours to get to chess, including downing maiden attuman, and illhoof on the way… how long does it take you guys to get to prince?

Dasinia: right now, my guild has stopped running Kara and Gruuls. We basically pug Kara and do it in an evening.
Last time I was in Kara we took curator down in just over a minute and killed Shade before his mana hit 75%. We have kara fully cleared within 6 hours. This includes breaks and all bosses. Even the optional bosses. Kara is essentially a badge run for the guys.

Roadwolf: Very impressive! So was Raiding stressful? or was it fun?

Dasinia: It’s great fun at first.. and It’s always fun when weeks of training or working that next hard boss pay off with a kill. but it takes its toll…

Roadwolf: I imagine the toll is from raiding effecting your life in the real world?

Dasinia: Yes, you see, you have to devote a good chunk of your life to get ahead in this game. Some people have relationships, jobs, responsibilities, school, etc.. Wow comes first, everything else takes a back seat. This has mixed results. In my short time on wow. I’ve seen people get divorced from the game (read: more than one couple). People getting fired, grounded, failing classes, .. Hell. I even had a player who’s house was on fire and he called 911 and finished up the pull.

Roadwolf: Wow! didn’t that strike you as a bit, odd, I mean… He told you his house is on fire, but he was still playing?

Dasinia: Yeah.. it was *messed up*.. he finished the pull.. we couldn’t believe it.. it sure as shit got vent jumping with some funny commentary though. he was offline for a week afterwards because it burnt right to the ground.

Roadwolf: Have you yourself, had real life relationships ruined, because of the addiction to raiding?

Dasinia: Yes. Absoleutly.. I’ve neglected a lot of my friends for WoW.. I haven’t yet apologized to them all yet, but I hope they know how badly I feel for it. It’s a very addicting game and you often fail to realize that you’re dismissing your local friends for people who come and go on a video game. I love WoW, I do not regret the time and fun that I’ve had with the game. But raiding is a full-time job. To be successful at raiding and WoW you need to sacrifice your time and life, and often more.

Roadwolf: You don’t believe that success is a measuring stick that can measure more then gear and raid success? Like, you wouldn’t consider a close knit, casual guild, who has fun together in the game, successful?

Dasinia: Gear is not a measure of success really… Take a Shadow Priest for example.. You can craft T5 equiv gear right off the bat. T4 druid gear is better for tanking than T5. Now of course there are items that a guy will have to show his involvement, but you can raid really high end dungeons for several weeks without getting anything.

Dasinia: Well. I’ll tell you this. Of all my time in WoW.. Raiding is stressful, long, and very committed. It is shrouded in politics and competition. When was the last time that you thought politics, stress and competition to the extreme was fun? Some people of course enjoy that, but it’s my experience that most do not. If you want the gear, you need to play the game. And playing the game involves people, politics, and a hell of a lot of effort and time. When you raid, you’re not only gearing yourself up, but everyone around you.

Dasinia: At this point in my WoW career, I’d very much like to casually play so that I can catch my life up. I’ve spent so much time raiding my life has hit the point of being the same for over a year.. Nothing to show for it beyond some wisdom and a couple lines in a database.

Roadwolf: But do you think that there is another way to play the game, which doesn’t involve the quest for more gear, and harder and harder bosses? perhaps leveling a lot of alts, or playing casually, or even role playing?

Dasinia: Yeah. those are all good points. I have 3 70’s and I was raiding full time. Perhaps that illustrates how much I’ve played the game. I would play at work, in the morning, and the second I got home. The last time I had real in-game fun was during the Lunar festival this year.. I kite’d Omen from Moonglade all the way to Orgrimmar and had some of my guildies join me. They kept the path clear by killing guards and etc, and when we hit Orgrimmar they kept the guards busy while I pulled Omen right into town. That was fun…

Roadwolf: How did the time spent playing, even at work, effect your life at work?

Dasinia: Work?,… Well.. the quality of my work would suffer,.. Personally I was always good at doing the bare minimum and making it look more than it was. But the quality still isn’t what it could be. Beyond work, personal life suffers..

Roadwolf: I imagine you were quite lonely?

Dasinia: When I wasn’t playing. When I was playing, I was on vent, had lots of people to “hang” with. But once the game is closed, reality sinks in.

Roadwolf: I heard a rumor that you once played WoW, while camping on a mountain, outside in the wilderness? lol do you think that was perhaps a sign of how hooked you were.. if it indeed happened?

Dasinia: I played WoW once while camping in a Yurt via my surprisingly adequate 1X cell connection. A bit of lag, but it was still playable. It’s a really really good game. No question or doubt about that. It’s so easy to give up on life and retreat into azeroth. All the effort put into that game can be easily channeled and put into life, a hobby,.. Why level your character when you can level yourself. That’s why I am not playing WoW anymore.. I still have my account, I still check in the odd time and say hi to the guys.. I still might even help someone if they call me up and ask.. But otherwise, I’m off doing something productive.

Roadwolf: In the end, what did you gain out of hardcore raiding? and what have you lost in life… and was it worth it?

Dasinia: I am not one to believe in regret. I honor the choices I make and have made. I really enjoy wow, the people I’ve met, the laughs I’ve had and the adventure of the game. I don’t really know what I’ve lost, but I know I haven’t lost as much as many of the people I’ve seen who have suffered due to their game play and priorities.. In the end though, what I gained was perspective. I can’t say it was or wasn’t worth it. I don’t think it can be summed up with value. Like most things, it was just something that I did.

Roadwolf: I respect that. Do you have any advice for people who are considering joining a raiding guild?

Dasinia: Really depends where a person is at in life… But .. I would say that the goal of getting the highest gear is a futile goal. Don’t play for gear, play for play. And don’t let the game consume yourself such that you forget about your friends and relationships. This game will eventually come to an end. Your effort is nothing more than a couple lines in a database and the memories you hold. You need to decide what is of more value to you.. Gear that doesn’t really exist or all of your free time.

Dasinia: Don’t play wow for gear, .. Blizz will ensure the moment you get the best item that another one of greater power is made. The race for gear is a futile and vein race. You will not win it. The good thing about the game is that you can always quit. Just make sure you don’t let it take you over. The game is to be enjoyed at your leasure, not to enslave you.

Roadwolf: Did you feel enslaved ?

Dasinia: When you’re on your 12th attempt of the night on a boss, and you’ve spent 120g on repairs and 60g on flasks and are tired of people being dicks but you have to keep plugging away.. Yeah. you feel like a slave.

Roadwolf: Would you agree that raiding guilds tend to be more prone to corruption, greed, immaurity and ego’s, then say, casual guilds?

Dasinia: Oh for sure! Raid guilds are pure chaos… they do not last long.. I’ve seen casual guilds last years… I’ve seen raid guilds die and reborn every 6 months

Dasinia: Raiding is a do or die thing.. If the raiders don’t think things are going well or fast enough, or bitch because they didn’t get a drop.. or etc.. they /gquit.

Roadwolf: Not very loyal then. Raid guilds seem to be all focused on whats best for themselves.

Dasinia: Yepo

Roadwolf: Well Thank you for your time Dasinia. That was a very informative and insightful interview. I hope this provides some clarity to some people who may be curious as to what life is like after they choose raiding

Tags: Computer Game Reviews by Roadwolf
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